Is this what most folks would consider a "bootleg"? Should it be included on the site?
http://www.bigbadtoystore.com/bbts/prod ... ode=retail (http://www.bigbadtoystore.com/bbts/product.aspx?product=FPJ10000&mode=retail)
'Bootleg' implies that there's an original item upon which to base an unofficial copy. This, hyperawesomeness aside, is original, but unofficial, and thusly has no place on the site.
Okie-doke. It really does seem pretty cool, though, and I'm sure a lot of fans would buy it. I know we want no part of Big Lots crap and other super cheap knockoffs, but what if we add a "toyline" called "unlicensed", where we can put high-quality stuff like this? Just a thought--I don't want to start any holy wars, or anything.
'Bootleg' implies that there's an original item upon which to base an unofficial copy. This, hyperawesomeness aside, is original, but unofficial, and thusly has no place on the site.
Nope, I'm afraid I gotta side with DP on this one. Knockoffs shouldn't be included on here.
MIKE
engledogg
But is this really a knockoff? It's an original design, isn't it?
Nope, I'm afraid I gotta side with DP on this one. Knockoffs shouldn't be included on here.
MIKE
engledogg
Knockoffs is a term thrown around too lightly. Sorry about that. I really mean knockoffs, bootlegs, unofficial, and unlicensed products shouldn't be on here.
That is an original design, yes, but unlicensed and unofficial. And 100% awesome, but still...shouldn't be on here.:)
MIKE
engledogg
I also vote not to include it, if that matters.
Why? Because you're apparently sticking with OFFICIAL toys. Toys released by some company that has an official licensing right to release into their region.
This is little more than a nicely done custom or kitbash. You open up the site to this, you open it up to unofficial toys of ALL kinds. Bootlegs, knockoffs, and even simple fan repaints and kitbashes too.
I vote to restrict the site to official stuff only, otherwise you start to slippery slope with stuff.
Okay, we stick with the licensed stuff! Thanks, guys...
We could do something doofy like make some further use of the page where all those articles about the increases in package listings are sitting. Review stuff like this, link to the shmax.com listings of the figure/s that use/s it, and just make sure to drive home the point that 'you're not gonna find a listing for this item anywhere on the main site, as this is unlicensed and unofficial'.
Just a thought. I wouldn't be much good for such reviews, btw, as I have enough of a time keeping up with official merch to bother with too much of the 'un'. I bought the JustIToys MP-1 Trailer, and have all of Unicron.com's items, but that's really it. I think interested users could submit articles they themselves write for such items (and feh, no reason to limit it to unofficial, after all). They probably oughta be proofread and edited before posting (which IS something I could handle, btw),--'cus content and clarity are important, dammit!!--and...probably shouldn't drown that page. 'Article of the Week', 'Article of the Whenever-the-hell-we-feel-like-it', whatever. Considering how much of the site is already user-submitted conten, it seems like a decent enough idea t'me.
Yeah knockoffs and the Ultra Magnus Trailer are two diffrant things all togather I would treat it like an aftermarket accessory pack
Like the Cliffjumper set
Maybe an external link to order thim in the triva section or facts area
Sort of like.. Also avalble thought BBTS or Just Toys is the trailer accessory for Ultra Magnus
There is a diffrance between a cheap KO of TM2 Megatron at Big Lots and Just toys awsomely designed Trailer for UM
There is a diffrance between a cheap KO of TM2 Megatron at Big Lots and Just toys awsomely designed Trailer for UM
word. i think there is a place for these kinds of things or should be. what's wrong with being the site to come to when you're trying to find all things awesome. i'd rather come here for cool accesories than i figure and 8 forms of packaging it came in.
As awesome as this is (and I own it) I also vote it not be included. If it's not official it shouldn't count.
Folks, for now we're sticking only with official "Tranformers" brand stuff. There are a few reasons:
1. If we allow even the occasional quality knock-off, then that sort of breaches the dam and people will wonder where the rest of the Big Lots junk is, or try to enter it themselves, which will put more of a burden on the site's moderators, who already have enough trouble managing the official stuff.
2. Technical reasons. Every record added to the database adds a little overhead, and at this modest stage in the site's lifetime we'd just as soon spend the resources on legitimate stuff.
3. Categorical purity. The top node in the toyline tree says "Transformers", meaning the Transformers brand.
Now, having said all that, I'll mention that if the site finally starts to take off in a big way, we're prepared to expand to other toylines (such as G.I.Joe, Star Wars, etc). Once we get to the point where additional toylines can be added easily without corrupting the existing infrastructure, there's no reason why we couldn't add a high-level generic "Transforming Robots" toyline, and that would be where stuff like these knock-offs will go.
Sound good?
gi joe? PFT!
i don't think anybody is suggesting big lots knock offs. I know I'm not.
I'm talking about the high end accessories that interact specifically with official TF merchandise. like the starscream coronation set that fits tightly onto MP starscreams head, or the Ultra magnus trailer that snaps tightly to classics UM, or the up coming alternators OP gas can/matrix of leadership that fits under the hood/chest of OP.
these are items that only work with the best official TFs. if great items like these are ignored then so should lucky draw and botcon items.
Well, Lucky Draw and Botcon items are "Transformers", in the sense that they are licensed and carry the brand (although we're considering tagging "Lucky Draw" items as non-collectible, meaning that they wouldn't count against or otherwise affect one's collection stats). The other items aren't. We're not making any judgments about whether they're cool or not--the only reason they're not currently on the site is that we're simply not set up properly for them yet. But we'll get there! Please be patient, and in time, all will be swell.
Max
gi joe? PFT!
i don't think anybody is suggesting big lots knock offs. I know I'm not.
I'm talking about the high end accessories that interact specifically with official TF merchandise. like the starscream coronation set that fits tightly onto MP starscreams head, or the Ultra magnus trailer that snaps tightly to classics UM, or the up coming alternators OP gas can/matrix of leadership that fits under the hood/chest of OP.
these are items that only work with the best official TFs. if great items like these are ignored then so should lucky draw and botcon items.
Actually... technically... aren't all BotCon exclusives before OTFCC "unlicensed"? I thought some early exclusives were almost canceled because they didn't ask permission... but wait... they're official molds in new colors. They would have had to go through Hasbro... so maybe I'm totally wrong. It would still be really funny if all of those are unlicensed and "don't count". :>
i vote for them to be included, as the powered commander is a TFcon exclusive and the unicron.com vector sigma was available at botcon, those two companies at the very least should be included on the site, a lot of hard work goes into their sets, and if you include botcon, they should be there, in a category maybe called collectors upgrades or something
We'll get to 'em, eventually. There are a few major issues for toys in general I want to solve (variant handling, blind-packing, etc), and then the site will be expanding to cover other toy brands (Star Wars, G.I.Joe, Gobots). Once we get to where we can expand easily, the first non-Transformers brand will probably be a sort of generic transforming robots category. Just hang in there, and all will be groovy. But for now, all I'm interested in is photos! Will you be participating in the contest?
i vote for them to be included, as the powered commander is a TFcon exclusive and the unicron.com vector sigma was available at botcon, those two companies at the very least should be included on the site, a lot of hard work goes into their sets, and if you include botcon, they should be there
We'll get to 'em, eventually. There are a few major issues for toys in general I want to solve (variant handling, blind-packing, etc), and then the site will be expanding to cover other toy brands (Star Wars, G.I.Joe, Gobots). Once we get to where we can expand easily, the first non-Transformers brand will probably be a sort of generic transforming robots category. Just hang in there, and all will be groovy. But for now, all I'm interested in is photos! Will you be participating in the contest?
i vote for them to be included, as the powered commander is a TFcon exclusive and the unicron.com vector sigma was available at botcon, those two companies at the very least should be included on the site, a lot of hard work goes into their sets, and if you include botcon, they should be there
i only have a few figs that you don't have photos for, but if i get a camera, i can get pics of henkei thundercracker and city/powered commander and a few others
I wouldn't want stuff included unless it was purely Hasbro/Takara Transformers. I mean I don't hate KO's, I have a few myself and lately have been contemplating the Dinobot KO's, but I don't think I'd want them here.
I like that it's a pure TF site.
To totally derail the thread:
What about comics? First TF stuff was Marvel TF #1.
Otherwise, I think remake/copies should not be included in this site.
Fansproject stuff should be under an unlicensed/limited release section. There is a lot of TF paraphernalia which is good to keep a record of and Protector and the like are clearly TF fiction inspired.
I think FansProject, MasterMind Creations, Perfect Effect, Junkion Blacksmith & Crazy Devy stuff should definitely be added to the site. They are considered highly collectible & are the only way we get some of the stuff we're wanting. I don't think stuff like iGear's PP(Masterpiece KOs/Retools) should be on here, but the original companies should definitely get a spot. Think about it, since FansProject debuted filling in voids that HasTakTom has left, the big 3 have really stepped up their game. Do you honestly think we would be getting all the beautiful fandriven stuff like the Generations/Reveal The Shield line if they didn't prove there was a definite demand for that type of design? Look at how small the original Classics line was, then enter 3rd party companies improving/modifying and look at how vast the new Classics line(starting with Universe/Classics 2.0) is. I know i'm a nobody on here but that's my opinion.
No argument, but we have some work to do before we can properly handle the non-official stuff. We'll get there, hopefully soonish...
Does this mean that one day, I can add my Space Wars oversized Gigatron to my collection on Shmax? :mrgreen:
I'm new here so perhaps I haven't looked thoroughly enough, but is there a way to list 3rd party Transformers and add-ons? If there isn't, could it be added?
I think those things are part of a collection, from individual 'bots to enhancements. It also adds to the overall value of one's collection.
Argh! I made a topic for this yesterday and now I find this today.
I see that at the beginning a good amount of people were opposed, being 2008 and not many stuff being developed by 3rd party companies. But to this day there's a fair amount of products out there, both add-on and individual robots. Hopefully, I wish these items can be added here, specially add-on parts.
However, when it comes to individual figures (Fansproject and Igear robots among others) they should be on a separate section with their own classifications. Maybe within the Transformers tab or on a separate area that isn't a "knockoff" area since most of this figures aren't unlicensed reproductions of an existing figure but a new figure by themselves.
Well, we've been sort of reluctant to start in on the non-Transformers stuff mainly for technical reasons. It's something we want to do in a very deliberate way, such as a category that is a sibling of the main "Transformers" category. Unfortunately, there's a lot of code right now in the system that makes assumptions about what the root of the tree is (right now it's "Transformers", but after expanding the tree as discussed, the new root would be something else, such as "Toys"). So it's doable, I just need to get to it, and there's a lot of other work I have half-finished I need to do first.
In the meantime, we could sort of cheat and just add a "Other Transforming Robots" (or whatever) category as a child of "Transformers", and move it later once the other work is complete. I'm leaving that sort of decision to Engledogg, as he's the one that will wind up doing most of the work. Maybe if you ask reaaaaalllllly nicely...
I'd figure that Pre-TFs would be a higher priority to KOs. Having the ability to add Diaclone would probably lay the framework for adding any other types of toys, including KOs.
Engledogg isn't really against the idea of getting a head start on off-brand transforming robots, per se, but it's just not his specialty, and he doesn't want to be responsible for fact-checking part lists, molds, and so on. Do we have any volunteers interested in a moderator position to take charge of such an effort? Think carefully before you shoot those hands up--it can be time-consuming work...
Shmax,
I'm personally all for adding 3rd party products, lord knows I buy plenty of them: but I think we need to tackle the Challenge of the Gobots and Diaclone stuff first. I'm sure Engledogg agrees with me in that regard.
--SoS
Shmax,
I'm personally all for adding 3rd party products, lord knows I buy plenty of them: but I think we need to tackle the Challenge of the Gobots and Diaclone stuff first. I'm sure Engledogg agrees with me in that regard.
--SoS
If you're willing to take on the bulk of the moderator duties for any or all of the above, and Engledogg doesn't object, then I say do whatever interests you.
Diaclone won't be much of an issue (same goes for Microchange/Microman) as we already have a bunch of that mold information in the system under the Transformers brand (early TFs used those molds)...
MIKE
engledogg
Nothing to add except that maybe the top category should be 'collection' instead of 'toys', since you are limiting yourself to 'toys' when you make that your top level.
Nothing to add except that maybe the top category should be 'collection' instead of 'toys', since you are limiting yourself to 'toys' when you make that your top level.
Good point. "Toys" was just an example, but I don't think it really matters too much what the root is called as you generally don't see it listed around the site--usually it's sort of invisible and you just see the children listed.
If you're willing to take on the bulk of the moderator duties for any or all of the above, and Engledogg doesn't object, then I say do whatever interests you.
Diaclone won't be much of an issue (same goes for Microchange/Microman) as we already have a bunch of that mold information in the system under the Transformers brand (early TFs used those molds)...
MIKE
engledogg
Nothing to add except that maybe the top category should be 'collection' instead of 'toys', since you are limiting yourself to 'toys' when you make that your top level.
Good point. "Toys" was just an example, but I don't think it really matters too much what the root is called as you generally don't see it listed around the site--usually it's sort of invisible and you just see the children listed.
Sooooo.....that a yes? I'm ready to start.
This can easily work with another toyline that Transformers has used some molds from in the past as well as recently. *cough*G.I.*cough*Joe*cough*
--SoS